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Nice zitra Jeden příspěvek | Celý strom
Výlet do Nice, aneb Riviera Crisis - diplomatická nóta   27. 7. 2005 / 12:31
Rychlokvaška
Vážení piloti včerejšího flyoutu na IVAO.

Protože ATC pokrytí ve Francii bylo něco co jsme opravdu ještě nezažili a leží nám na srdci Vaše spokojenost, připravili jsme pro odpovědné zástupce Francouzské divize tuto protestní nótu, kterou jako otevřený dopis předkládáme i zde. Snad povede alespoň k jejich zamyšlení, nejlépe nápravě.


Dear Colleagues from IVAO Division France,

last evening on 26th July our division organized quite a big flyout out of LKAA FIR to LFMN airport. Our division is organizing regular Tuesday events, usually with massive LKAA coverage, but this time we decided to take a virtual vacation. Because Marseille FIR was seen staffed quite reguralry and Nice is a beautiful summer vacation spot, this seemed as a nice idea and we strongly hoped that this unusual traffic will please your controllers as a nice training tool or at least unusual fun. We have contacted your EC and got a reply from EAC to confirm that the ATC will be available and services provided. We also mentioned that if you'll not be able to manage it, be so kind and inform us. ATC coverage was then confirmed. Many pilots cancelled their usual routes and decided to fly to Nice, to experience unusual approach procedures and share the fun with your division people.

However, this event unfortunately turned to something which we don't really hesitate to call a disaster, measured by usual ATC standards. Out of 1853 active members in your division and many C1-C3 and even I1 and I2 controllers among them, only one heavily unexperienced S3 controller was provided and only for LFMN_APP at first, lately supported by TWR. With such heavy traffic, Nice area soon became totally unorganized place, not to mention it went active too late for most of the pilots and also disconnected well before all were cleared for APP. It's really sad to say, that when on unicom, people get organized themselves much better then...

Just to mention few most evident problems people experienced at this evening:

* Callsigns and their shortening - it's not a big problem when all unusual callsigns are spelled, but when it's seen in strip and as a backup also written in remark, it's not a big deal to use the proper form, we think. But what was much worse - the controller didn't have a clue, how to shorten them. He used just numbers, usually in very confusing situations, which were very similar, if not the same in some cases (or could be used for more pilots).

* Vectoring - this guy was absolutely unexperienced as an APP. He used headings like 178, 297, etc., improper angle-off from final course for ILS, nothing was right.

* Conflicts! - our TCASes were all like a christmas trees. Many flights were just flying all the time waiting for a RA call in a very high tension. The conflicts were not just crossing or opposite traffic at very small distances (1nm not an exception), but usually all the time at the same level, usually the last given by Padova Radar before handoff.

* Traffic flow - he simply didn't have a clue what's happening in his airspace. Incoming flights had to automatically enter holdings at clearance limit points, because they were totally ignored. Planes with low fuel after tens of minutes of holding were asking for a further instructions usually without any reply. Pilots were not contacted for a long long time, were not served on first come-first served basis, were cleared for headings to nowhere over the sea and forgotten - some were flying very long routes at 3000ft (even 90nm !) before noticed. No FL stepping, no vectors or speeds separation, nothing.

* Phraseology - the list would be too long to mention everything. Errors in FL/ALT QNH (FL30), headings, clearances, ....

We fully understand, that for unexperienced ATC at S3 rating (maybe for the first time on APP), this is new and very stressful experience. We can imagine this was well beyond his limits, practice and knowledge. But what we don't understand, why he was delegated to this position yesterday, when you have quite a lot controllers, which (we hope) would be fully capable of handling such traffic. Problem is, we wonder, we have now quite a bunch of very unsatisfied pilots, which will carefully consider any future visit do France and that's pity and we suppose you would agree.

Any suggestions ?

Of course, any Tuesday (or other day on request), you and all division pilots are welcome in LKAA and Prague Airport and we hope you'll enjoy standard high quality service as we're pleased to provide - more traffic, the better.

Regards

Czech Division Staff

 
Nice zitra - Jaris Zobrazit celý strom25. 07. 05 v 20:46
Nice zitra - skyfly Zobrazit celý strom25. 07. 05 v 21:22
Nice zitra - Jaris Zobrazit celý strom25. 07. 05 v 21:27
Nice zitra - skyfly Zobrazit celý strom25. 07. 05 v 21:43
Nice zitra - Filip Zobrazit celý strom25. 07. 05 v 21:44
Nice dnes - OK-Milda (BHA410) Zobrazit celý strom26. 07. 05 v 11:41
Nice dnes - Marky Parky Zobrazit celý strom26. 07. 05 v 11:56
Nice dnes - OK-Milda (BHA410) Zobrazit celý strom26. 07. 05 v 12:18
Nice dnes - Marky Parky Zobrazit celý strom26. 07. 05 v 12:45
Nice dnes - OK-Milda (BHA410) Zobrazit celý strom26. 07. 05 v 13:12
Nice dnes - MaPa Zobrazit celý strom26. 07. 05 v 14:27
Nice dnes - Latom Zobrazit celý strom26. 07. 05 v 12:19
Nice dnes - skyfly Zobrazit celý strom26. 07. 05 v 22:29
Nice dnes - Marky Parky Zobrazit celý strom26. 07. 05 v 22:42
Nice dnes - Tomino Zobrazit celý strom26. 07. 05 v 22:48
Nice dnes - skyfly Zobrazit celý strom26. 07. 05 v 22:52
Nice dnes - Filip Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 00:52
Nice dnes - herrnohava Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 07:13
Nice dnes - pseudoMates Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 16:13
Nice dnes - napis (SVK007) Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 07:41
Nice dnes - Filip Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 09:06
Nice dnes - napis (SVK007) Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 20:50
Nice dnes - Filip Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 20:52
Nice dnes - Zdenek (OK-MAD) Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 09:44
Nice dnes - Tomino Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 10:00
Nice dnes - Filip Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 10:10
Nice dnes - OK-Milda (BHA410) Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 10:42
Nice dnes - Fabo™ Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 18:47
Výlet do Nice, aneb Riviera Crisis - Míra Dušínůj Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 08:55
Výlet do Nice, aneb Riviera Crisis - Filip Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 09:17
Výlet do Nice, aneb Riviera Crisis - Tomino Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 09:17
Výlet do Nice, aneb Riviera Crisis - Filip Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 09:18
Výlet do Nice, aneb Riviera Crisis - cmar Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 09:22
Výlet do Nice, aneb Riviera Crisis - Jojo Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 10:21
Výlet do Nice, aneb Riviera Crisis - diplomatická nóta - Míra Dušínůj Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 12:31
Výlet do Nice, aneb Riviera Crisis - diplomatická nóta - Latom Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 12:44
Výlet do Nice, aneb Riviera Crisis - diplomatická nóta - Tomino Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 12:51
Výlet do Nice, aneb Riviera Crisis - diplomatická nóta - Karel Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 13:27
Výlet do Nice, aneb Riviera Crisis - diplomatická nóta - Marky Parky Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 13:36
Výlet do Nice, aneb Riviera Crisis - diplomatická nóta - Tomino Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 13:40
Výlet do Nice, aneb Riviera Crisis - diplomatická nóta - Míra Dušínůj Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 13:43
Výlet do Nice, aneb Riviera Crisis - diplomatická nóta - cmar Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 14:52
Výlet do Nice, aneb Riviera Crisis - diplomatická nóta - Fabo™ Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 18:56
Výlet do Nice, aneb Riviera Crisis - diplomatická nóta - pseudoMates Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 19:01
Výlet do Nice, aneb Riviera Crisis - diplomatická nóta - Fabo™ Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 19:04
Výlet do Nice, aneb Riviera Crisis - diplomatická nóta - pseudoMates Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 19:23
Výlet do Nice, aneb Riviera Crisis - diplomatická nóta - Fabo™ Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 19:49
Výlet do Nice, aneb Riviera Crisis - diplomatická nóta - napis (SVK007) Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 21:15
Výlet do Nice, aneb Riviera Crisis - diplomatická nóta - Zdenek (OK-MAD) Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 14:13
Výlet do Nice, aneb Riviera Crisis - diplomatická nóta - Tomino Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 14:46
Re... Výlet do Nice - a příští akce - OK-Milda (BHA410) Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 15:11
Re... Výlet do Nice - a příští akce - Filip Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 15:15
Re... Výlet do Nice - a příští akce - Charlie Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 15:40
Re... Výlet do Nice - a příští akce - OK-Milda (BHA410) Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 15:41
Re... Výlet do Nice - a příští akce - Charlie Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 15:43
Výlet do Nice, aneb Riviera Crisis - diplomatická nóta - skyfly Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 13:45
Výlet do Nice, diplomatická nóta - odpověď FR-STAFF - Míra Dušínůj Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 15:19
Výlet do Nice, diplomatická nóta - odpověď FR-STAFF - Filip Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 15:24
Výlet do Nice, diplomatická nóta - odpověď FR-STAFF - skyfly Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 15:28
Výlet do Nice, diplomatická nóta - odpověď FR-STAFF - OK-Milda (BHA410) Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 15:31
Výlet do Nice, diplomatická nóta - odpověď FR-STAFF - Filip Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 15:31
Výlet do Nice, diplomatická nóta - odpověď FR-STAFF - Tomino Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 15:40
Výlet do Nice, aneb Riviera Crisis - mípa Zobrazit celý strom27. 07. 05 v 17:15
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