|  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 9. 8. 2010 / 08:55 | |
|  | Zdravím,
myslel jsem že si vyberu novou kartu pro XPLANE za pět minut a ono to není tak jednoduché.
Chci něco s 1GB paměti a cenou řekněme do 4000 bez DPH. Kvůli XPL bych upřednostnil NVIDII, jenže jaksi tam je ohromný propad v cena/výkon.
Zatím mi vychází jako nejrozumnější:
ASUS EAH4870/2DI/1GD5 za 2700,- bez DPH, který výkonově je srovnatelný s GTX285 ale stojí polovinu, což je nejspíš tím, že je to výprodej. Naopak GTS250 ( což je prý 9800GTX+ ) už o více jak 10 procentních bodů za ATI 4870 zaostává a přitom je levnější o dvě stovky.
Trochu se bojím toho ATI v souvislosti s XPL. Karci zmiňoval nějaké problémy.
Váš názor?
Díky.
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 |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 9. 8. 2010 / 09:27 | |
|  | Tady je pár dat:
Karta..................GTS 250..............ATI HD 4870
Interface............PCI-E 2.0 x16.........PCI-E 2.0 x16
CoreClock............738 MHz...............750 MHz
ShaderClock.........1836 MHz..............750 MHz
Memory..............1100 MHz.............1800 MHz
MemBandwidth.......70.4 GBps.............115.2 GBps
FLOPS..................470 GF...............1200 GF
PixelFill..............11808 Mpx............12000 MPx
TextureFill..........47323 Mtx............30000 Mtx
MemType...............GDDR3................GDDR5
MemBus...............64x4(256).............32x8(256)
ShaderProcs...........128...................800
TxtUnits................64......................40
RasterOps...............16....................16
MaxPower...............150 W................150 W
DX.....................10.0.....................10.1
OpenGL..................2.1.....................2.1
http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=606&card2=564 |
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 |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 9. 8. 2010 / 10:41 | |
|  | Konkrétne mám ATI 4870 ale 512 MB a ide mi to plynule s
texture extreme resolution
Forrest - populated
Distance - high
object - tons
roads - tons
airport - defaults
traffic - Kansas
AA -2x
AF - 16
water - complete
S GA mašinkou nad LOWI v priemere 30-35 FPS |
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 |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 9. 8. 2010 / 11:03 | |
|  | Tu GTS250 jsem vyřadil z výběru, to ATI 4870 ji hladce poráží.
Rozhoduji se mezi ATI 4870 1GB a GTX460 1GB/768MB.
Ta GTX je modernější a o asi 20% výkonnější, ale také o víc než třetinu dražší.
Verze s 768MB RAM se dostane do těch 4000 s poklesem výkonu o 8%, verze s 1GB o pár stovek přeleze (ta cena není pevná, je to jen taková psychologická hranice).
Jako šetřílek bych šel do toho ATI, výkonově by mně určitě stačila (já mám teď prehistorickou 8600GT s 256MB RAM a taky žiju, i s OF a AN24),
Ale ona podpora CUDA u GTX460 není k zahození, navíc tam je DX11, novější OpenGL,...
Jinak díky všem za reakce. |
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 |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 9. 8. 2010 / 12:26 | |
|  | | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 9. 8. 2010 / 12:32 | |
|  | Přesně tuhle mám v hledáčku. Díky za referenci. |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 9. 8. 2010 / 13:48 | |
|  | Jinak pokud budeš kupovat Nvidia, tak ta 460ka je asi opravdu výtečná volba s poměrem cena výkon. Rozhodně bych jí dal přednost oproti starší kartě řady GTX 200 - o generaci novější karta, 40 nm technologie, tím pádem menší spotřeba, podpora Fermi, DirectX 11, myslím, že není co řešit ... 
Tady na ní taky pějí samou chválu: http://www.svethardware.cz/art_doc-AD9CC694EFA33117C125776100637D6F.html
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 9. 8. 2010 / 14:07 | |
|  | S touhle kartou má člověk na 4 roky vystaráno, škoda, že nebyla na trhu loni, když sem kupoval novej počítač.
No, co moje GTX 275 taky neni k zahození, musím ji, holku pochválit ...  |
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 |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 9. 8. 2010 / 13:37 | |
|  | Tak CUDA už je u grafických karet Nvidia řady 200, možná dokonce u starších ... a k čemu to potřebuješ?  |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 9. 8. 2010 / 13:49 | |
|  | Jednak G2XPL využívá CUDA na přepočty a pak hlavně Ulead Video Studio X3 má podporu pro CUDA. A tam by to mohlo být sakra znát - ale nezkoušel jsem, X3 ještě nemám, protože mně Corel nepozval na narozeniny 
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 9. 8. 2010 / 14:01 | |
|  | Aha, to jsem netušil, že je XPL takhle na výši a že se tyhle technologie zavádí do komerčního software, myslel jsem, že se využití CUDA omezuje na akademickou sféru. Já se o GPGPU computing trošku zajímám, tak proto jsem se ptal. Nedávno sem to CUDA rozhraní rozchodil u sebe na Linuxu a trošku sem to studoval. Na fyzikální simulace to dává výkon okolo (moje GTX 275) 500 GFlop, docela mazec ...
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 9. 8. 2010 / 14:03 | |
|  | Tuším i Photoshop některé efekty vypočítává přes CUDA, je-li k dispozici.
Ale nejvíc patrné by to mělo být právě u přepočtu videa. |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 9. 8. 2010 / 14:10 | |
|  | No je to asi logické, nárůst výkonu u úloh, které se hodí pro masivně paralelní výpočty je oproti CPU opravdu značný (minimálně o řád) a vývojáři komerčních aplikací by byli blázni, kdyby si tuhle příležitost nechali ujít. Navíc Nvidia dělá poměrně slušný marketing ... |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 9. 8. 2010 / 14:12 | |
|  | tak ona to neni jen nvidiacka cuda... tech standardu je vic, nvidia si (jako obvykle) jede svou proprietarni sferou, nicmene je tu directcompute jako soucast directx, ktere by melo umoznovat platformove nezavisle gpgpu... |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 9. 8. 2010 / 14:23 | |
|  | A co je jako DirectX? Open sourcova charita? Promiň, ale tohle mě trošku rozesmálo ... Dávat rozhraní, díky kterýmu je problém většinu her rozchodit na čemkoliv jinym než Windows jako výraz otevřenosti mi nepřijde jako ten nejlepší příklad ... CUDAckej kod se předkomplilovava a vysledek se domokpiluje na dané platformě, takže to běží na libovolne platformě, která rozchodí tu grafickou kartu a může to běžet i na CPU, pokud není k dispozici gr. karta s podporou CUDA, takže otevřený je to až dost. Navíc je k němu skvělá dokumentace zdarma a vůbec, proč by Nvidia nemohla vyvinout proprietální rozhraní, který maximalizuje výkon hardwaru, který sami vyvinuli ...
A potom, pro zaryté fandy open standartů je tu Open CL ... |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 9. 8. 2010 / 14:26 | |
|  | Ještě, že máme Austina, kterej vsadil na Open GL a díky němu si můžeme pustit X-plane v podstatě na čemkoliv. A Podle všeho se mu díky milionovým prodejům na IPodech, etc. tahle sázka docela vyplatila ... |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 9. 8. 2010 / 14:47 | |
|  | O je. Jeden o voze, druhy o koze. |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 9. 8. 2010 / 15:27 | |
|  | Ano, někteří lidé jsou odsouzeni k tomu, zůstat nepochopeni. Často svou vlastní vinou. Někdy to bývá dokonce jejich záměr, protože milují sebeklamný pocit, že jsou obklopeni samými blbci ... |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 10. 8. 2010 / 17:50 | |
|  | | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 10. 8. 2010 / 18:23 | |
|  | Nebude ulohy vhodne pro vypocet na grafarnach jsou celkem specificke a ne vse se na nich pocitat da.. tedy, da ... ale s nulovym prinosem  |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 10. 8. 2010 / 19:55 | |
|  | Tak ono se využívání CUDA/DirectCompute chystá mimo jiné i v následující verzi fsky FSXI. Bude tam údajně úplně nový engine pro fyziku letadel a fyziku atm. vlivů, modelovaný právě přes PhysX, realitou má na hony překonávat X-Plane. Grafický engine má být taky úplně nový, plně optimalizovaný, hlavně co se týká špatných zkušeností s FPS z minulé verze se prý máme na co těšit - i na průměrných kancelářských strojích prý poběží (pokud tam bude přiměřená CUDA/DC grafárna) úplně hladce. Už v základní nabídce default letadel bude např. uvolněný PMDG 737 pro školní účely, přibude mnoho vrtulníků, vrací se Concorde a z GA letadel se tam prý dokonce rozhodli mimo jiné vymodelovat i Z-226, ale to ještě není jisté, adeptů je víc. Dokonce tam snad má být i možnost online využívání orto dat z google a další věci, které nechtějí prozrazovat, prý se máme nechat překvapit.
A pak jsem se probudil. |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 10. 8. 2010 / 20:42 | |
|  | Já bych vám to kluci přál.
Jenom se obávám, že v FSXI bude pilotovaný let na Mars v sekci Historical Mission. |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 11. 8. 2010 / 18:53 | |
|  | | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 11. 8. 2010 / 18:55 | |
|  | To bude v době, kdy bude Windows open source ...  |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 11. 8. 2010 / 19:05 | |
|  | No teda, tak na 3 vteřiny sem ti to věřil ... Ale s tou fyzikou (i kdyby v tom pokračovali) to je asi tak reálný jako, že Windows nebudou defaultně předpokládat, že uživatel je blbec ... |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta (uz OT) 11. 8. 2010 / 19:08 | |
|  | oni ale musi predpokladat, ze je uzivatel blbec. it vzdelanych uzivatelu je tak procento . zbytek jsou jen uzivatele .) |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta (uz OT) 11. 8. 2010 / 19:13 | |
|  | No, možná sem trochu větší optimista, ale souhlasím, že "uživatelů" je většina. Nicméně mě to nezajímá a to jak se mnou Windows jednají, mě uráží ... naštěstí s nimi interaguji minimálně, ale občas mi kazí zážitky z hraní ... 
Ale stejně si myslím, že by se dalo vše jednoduše vyřešit např. volnou přednastavení při instalaci:
a) expert
b) normální uživatel
c) vaše matka ... |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta (uz OT) 11. 8. 2010 / 19:17 | |
|  | Prozrad mi prosim neco, cim te urazi? jako teda povazuju se za celkem skilled uzivatele, ale ze by me necim windowsy urazely.... |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta (uz OT) 11. 8. 2010 / 19:48 | |
|  | Ale no tak, to snad byla řečnická otázka, ne? |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta (uz OT) 11. 8. 2010 / 19:51 | |
|  | Ja v tom nic recnickeho nevidel. Kdyz o tobe napisu, ze jsi idiot, tak to taky budes brat jako "recnickou" otazku?  |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta (uz OT) 11. 8. 2010 / 19:52 | |
|  | Jistě to přirovnání bylo zamýšleno jako vtipné, nicméně jsem ho naprosto nepochopil. Možná jsem opravdu idiot ...  |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta (uz OT) 11. 8. 2010 / 19:18 | |
|  | A ty si myslíš, že by někdo zvolil něco jiného, než a) ????  |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta (uz OT) 11. 8. 2010 / 19:21 | |
|  | No to by spíš chtělo nějaký vstupní IQ test a ten by každého automaticky rozškatulkoval do "expert" nebo "matka"  |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta (uz OT) 11. 8. 2010 / 19:24 | |
|  | to by se hned ozvali ochranci prav, ze ms zneuziva monopolni postaveni a diskriminalizuje je  |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta (uz OT) 11. 8. 2010 / 19:26 | |
|  | Jo a při IQ pod 100 by blokovali spuštění FS  |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta (uz OT) 11. 8. 2010 / 19:32 | |
|  | No nevim, myslim, že by si tady pár lidí nezalítalo ...  |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta (uz OT) 11. 8. 2010 / 19:34 | |
|  | Teď se asi zeptam jako blbec, ale: může vůbec FS běžet i v nějakym jinym operáku než ve W. ??? |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta (uz OT) 11. 8. 2010 / 19:36 | |
|  | Ano, to je opravdu -censored- otazka  |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta (uz OT) 11. 8. 2010 / 19:40 | |
|  | O.K. takže asi určitě néé, sám si odpovím...
Ona FS vlastně málokdy funguje i pod těmi Windowsy, že...  |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta (uz OT) 11. 8. 2010 / 19:47 | |
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No tak ale zase Windows, to není operační systém, takže to se nepočítá ...  |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta (uz OT) 11. 8. 2010 / 20:26 | |
|  | Odpoved pro jistotu 
FS ne (leda pod emulatory jako wine), XPL jo. Nativne myslim Win, Linux a Mac. |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta (uz OT) 11. 8. 2010 / 21:08 | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta (uz OT) 11. 8. 2010 / 21:22 | |
|  | Bootcamp... To jsou proste windowsY... Není důvod aby tam nebezel... |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 11. 8. 2010 / 18:52 | |
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Tak kdo řiká, že za pár let CPU GPU počtem jader nedožene ? |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 9. 8. 2010 / 14:11 | |
|  | cuda neni nic akademickeho .. je to jen dalsi doplnek do spektra funkci grafickych karet... |
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 |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 9. 8. 2010 / 09:27 | |
|  | Počkal bych na uvedení levnější nVidia řady GTS450, 440 a 430, kerá vychází z jádra GTX 460, jenž si teda nevede vůbec špatně - ne-li nejlíp (cena/výkon). Ber to jen jako jednu z mnoha variant.  |
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 |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 9. 8. 2010 / 09:32 | |
|  | No, za 4000,- 1GB Nvidia kartu proste asi nemas sancu
Ja mam GTX275 s 896MB RAM a nepocitujem ziadny problem.
Rozlisenie mam 1680x1050, textury na extreme, lesy na fill, dohladnost High, objects default a ked pozriem vytazenie VRAM viac ako 600MB my to neukazuje.
Takze kludne chod aj do 768GB alebo 896GB.
http://www.alza.cz/gigabyte-n26oc-896h-d181419.htm
Inu GTX Nvidiu pod 4000,- asi nezozenies.
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 |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 9. 8. 2010 / 09:55 | |
|  | To s tou ATI platilo pri starších ovládačoch, teraz je to už fajn |
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 |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 9. 8. 2010 / 13:44 | |
|  | Mrkni do SZ, myslím, že by to pro tebe mohlo být zajímavé  |
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 |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 9. 8. 2010 / 13:59 | |
|  | Uveď zbytek sestavy včetně zdroje (modelové označeční také, né jen watty), pak se můžem bavit o kartě.  |
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 |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 9. 8. 2010 / 14:53 | |
|  | Mám dvě možnosti - celkovou repasí, ale postupně:
Zdroj je teď Fortron 400W, takže ten musí jít hned s GTX460 na aspoň 500W.
Postupně asi vyměnit základní desku DP35DP ( která nemá PCIe 2.0 ) se zachováním patice LGA775.
Procesor (C2D E6750@2.6GHz) vyměnit asi na nejake 4jadro s LGA775.
Pamětí (PC2-6400 DDR2-SDRAM) je 4GB, což s ohledem na 32bit systém WinXP je dost (pokud by šly do nové desky)
Nebo je druhá varianta, vykašlat se na to, koupit GT240 za třináct stovek a neměnit nic. A časem možná třeba případně nové pécéčko. Každopádně potřebuju víc video paměti a aspoň o trošku větší výkon.
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 |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 10. 8. 2010 / 19:57 | |
|  | Prdlajs. Watty jsou skoro to poslední na co je třeba se dívat. Pro provoz karty je důležitý proudový odběr na +12V a v neposlední řadě taky provedení zdroje (tvrdost, zvlnění výstupu, ochrany, použité součástky, kvalita pájení) |
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 |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 11. 8. 2010 / 14:02 | |
|  | A jak se dají tyhle hodnoty při koupi vlastně zjistit, když jako laik ani nevím, jaké mají být? Copak výrobce něco podobného uvádí? |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  | XPL nová grafická karta 11. 8. 2010 / 14:16 | |
|  | Výrobce uvádí proudové odběry a účinnost (i když jak se říká "papír snese všecko". Pokud má zdroj certifikaci 80plus, dá se reálná účinnost zjistit přímo v dokumentaci na jejich stránkách). Zbytek vyčteš v recenzích, kde zdroje rozeberou a proměří, ale pro tebe jako pro laika je nejlepší si zajít prostě na nějaké odborné fórum (SHW, EHW, PCT třeba) a prostě se zeptat (nebo mi klidně napiš PM, kdyžtak ti pomůžu, ale to trvá vždycky rok než odpovím) |
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